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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s so great about being an ex-Christian? Intellectual integrity.</title>
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	<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/09/01/whats-so-great-about-being-an-ex-christian-intellectual-integrity/</link>
	<description>The theology of Reality</description>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/09/01/whats-so-great-about-being-an-ex-christian-intellectual-integrity/comment-page-1/#comment-14880</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=1091#comment-14880</guid>
		<description>I just found your blog today and this was one of the first posts that caught my eye. I felt compelled to comment, because (as they say) it felt like you were speaking directly to me.

I&#039;m 30 and lost my Christian faith in June 2007 after several years of intellectual wrestling and searching. I &quot;came out&quot; to my family over the next year and a half, which was difficult, since my dad is an evangelical pastor and I come from a very spiritually conservative family.

I completely agree with your article that my &quot;intellectual integrity&quot; has been the greatest benefit. The early days were difficult, since teachings on hell and fear of death still loomed. But after pushing through, there&#039;s been a wonderful sense of peace and joy that I never was able to fully experience before. I had become so accustomed to compartmentalizing and rationalizing my faith, that it felt good to finally be a complete person, intellectually.

It really is amazing how everything that seemed so complicated and mysterious as a Christian simply &quot;falls into place&quot; when you look at it with secular eyes. No more rationalizing or analogy-mining necessary.

I hope that I would still be open if there actually is a god who wants to know me, but I&#039;m not going to waste any more time knocking on that door.

I&#039;m still surrounded by Christians, and have taken a &quot;don&#039;t bring it up unless they do&quot; approach to keep the peace, so it&#039;s encouraging to read articles like this and realize that there are so many others that have taken the hard leap of faith out of Christianity and found that reality is just fine on the other side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just found your blog today and this was one of the first posts that caught my eye. I felt compelled to comment, because (as they say) it felt like you were speaking directly to me.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m 30 and lost my Christian faith in June 2007 after several years of intellectual wrestling and searching. I &#8220;came out&#8221; to my family over the next year and a half, which was difficult, since my dad is an evangelical pastor and I come from a very spiritually conservative family.</p>
<p>I completely agree with your article that my &#8220;intellectual integrity&#8221; has been the greatest benefit. The early days were difficult, since teachings on hell and fear of death still loomed. But after pushing through, there&#8217;s been a wonderful sense of peace and joy that I never was able to fully experience before. I had become so accustomed to compartmentalizing and rationalizing my faith, that it felt good to finally be a complete person, intellectually.</p>
<p>It really is amazing how everything that seemed so complicated and mysterious as a Christian simply &#8220;falls into place&#8221; when you look at it with secular eyes. No more rationalizing or analogy-mining necessary.</p>
<p>I hope that I would still be open if there actually is a god who wants to know me, but I&#8217;m not going to waste any more time knocking on that door.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still surrounded by Christians, and have taken a &#8220;don&#8217;t bring it up unless they do&#8221; approach to keep the peace, so it&#8217;s encouraging to read articles like this and realize that there are so many others that have taken the hard leap of faith out of Christianity and found that reality is just fine on the other side.</p>
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		<title>By: Eupraxsophy</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/09/01/whats-so-great-about-being-an-ex-christian-intellectual-integrity/comment-page-1/#comment-14066</link>
		<dc:creator>Eupraxsophy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=1091#comment-14066</guid>
		<description>Growing up in a Christian family I was subjected to the Christian faith, so it only seemed natural to have faith as well.  It wasn&#039;t until later in my life I started to have doubts about my faith.   It probably was my love for science that was the catalist for the lose of my faith.

Truth never contradicts itself and I would wonder about a verse in the Bible where Jesus tells about the wise man building his house upon the rock, and the fool building his house upon the sand.   As I had learned the rock represents the truth, the sand superstition, and the houses one&#039;s belief.    In other words does one base their beliefs on the truth, or does one base their truths on beliefs?
With this in mind my sister-inlaw who is a Christian asked me what the Bible is.  I told her it is a religious book, in which she told me that it is The Word of GOD.  I showed her in a dictionary under Bible and it said &quot; A sacred book of Christianity...&quot;,&quot; see!&quot;, I told her,&quot; it&#039;s a book!&quot;  She still went on about it being the truth and being God&#039;s word, so since she asked me a innocent question in which I gave her an honest answer I decided to ask her an innocent question in hopes of an honest answer.  I simply asked her, &quot;How do you KNOW?&quot;   I then showed her a Bible where it says Old Testiment and said this means there are witness&#039;s, then I showed her the very first verse,in the very first chapter, in the very first book of the Bible where it says, &quot; In the beginning God created Heaven and Earht&quot;.  I then asked her who is the witness to this event?  I proved to her that she is the one that is basing her truths on belief.

Where I once let go and let God, I now let go of God.  I now have an open mind as well as an open heart.  Humility has taught me to see the beauty in that which is superficially ugly, and see the ugliness in that which is superficially beautiful.   To be able to move on one must face the truth, accept the truth, and respect the truth.  It doesn&#039;t mean you have to like it.

Does science have all the answers or empirical proof? No. But what it has like evolution is substatiated proof like DNA, transitional fossils (Archaeopteryx), and numerous other sciences that well support it.   What does Christianity have?
Speculation, hear-say, testimonies from dead witness&#039;s, faith, and circumstantial evidence.  I would rather have questions that can&#039;t be answered than to have answers that can&#039;t be questioned.

If thy have a boastful tongue let it be that which rest upon thy head the Crown of Truth.

The destination of wisdom and enlightenment is traveled down the path of humility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Growing up in a Christian family I was subjected to the Christian faith, so it only seemed natural to have faith as well.  It wasn&#8217;t until later in my life I started to have doubts about my faith.   It probably was my love for science that was the catalist for the lose of my faith.</p>
<p>Truth never contradicts itself and I would wonder about a verse in the Bible where Jesus tells about the wise man building his house upon the rock, and the fool building his house upon the sand.   As I had learned the rock represents the truth, the sand superstition, and the houses one&#8217;s belief.    In other words does one base their beliefs on the truth, or does one base their truths on beliefs?<br />
With this in mind my sister-inlaw who is a Christian asked me what the Bible is.  I told her it is a religious book, in which she told me that it is The Word of GOD.  I showed her in a dictionary under Bible and it said &#8221; A sacred book of Christianity&#8230;&#8221;,&#8221; see!&#8221;, I told her,&#8221; it&#8217;s a book!&#8221;  She still went on about it being the truth and being God&#8217;s word, so since she asked me a innocent question in which I gave her an honest answer I decided to ask her an innocent question in hopes of an honest answer.  I simply asked her, &#8220;How do you KNOW?&#8221;   I then showed her a Bible where it says Old Testiment and said this means there are witness&#8217;s, then I showed her the very first verse,in the very first chapter, in the very first book of the Bible where it says, &#8221; In the beginning God created Heaven and Earht&#8221;.  I then asked her who is the witness to this event?  I proved to her that she is the one that is basing her truths on belief.</p>
<p>Where I once let go and let God, I now let go of God.  I now have an open mind as well as an open heart.  Humility has taught me to see the beauty in that which is superficially ugly, and see the ugliness in that which is superficially beautiful.   To be able to move on one must face the truth, accept the truth, and respect the truth.  It doesn&#8217;t mean you have to like it.</p>
<p>Does science have all the answers or empirical proof? No. But what it has like evolution is substatiated proof like DNA, transitional fossils (Archaeopteryx), and numerous other sciences that well support it.   What does Christianity have?<br />
Speculation, hear-say, testimonies from dead witness&#8217;s, faith, and circumstantial evidence.  I would rather have questions that can&#8217;t be answered than to have answers that can&#8217;t be questioned.</p>
<p>If thy have a boastful tongue let it be that which rest upon thy head the Crown of Truth.</p>
<p>The destination of wisdom and enlightenment is traveled down the path of humility.</p>
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		<title>By: valdemar</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/09/01/whats-so-great-about-being-an-ex-christian-intellectual-integrity/comment-page-1/#comment-13125</link>
		<dc:creator>valdemar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=1091#comment-13125</guid>
		<description>This is fascinating to me as I&#039;ve never been remotely religious, and always found it slightly weird that grownups should believe &#039;all that stuff&#039;. It&#039;s clearly a painful and difficult process to shed belief but - when you can do it - the rewards are obvious. The truth really did make you free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is fascinating to me as I&#8217;ve never been remotely religious, and always found it slightly weird that grownups should believe &#8216;all that stuff&#8217;. It&#8217;s clearly a painful and difficult process to shed belief but &#8211; when you can do it &#8211; the rewards are obvious. The truth really did make you free.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunt</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/09/01/whats-so-great-about-being-an-ex-christian-intellectual-integrity/comment-page-1/#comment-13081</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 08:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=1091#comment-13081</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t discount the fact that organized religion (which I&#039;m taking as code for &quot;church attendance&quot;) fills a function that communally inept societies like America have all but abandoned.  Interaction, fellowship with other human beings, etc.  In many ways the US of A is a very screwed up place in the societal context.  Years of anti-communist propaganda has left us paranoid of any kind of community spirit; avowed capitalism eschews many group efforts that may contradict its tenets, etc.  Just about the only venue for a release from a strictly regimented existence is community church attendance and adjunct social activities.  I honestly believe this is one of the reasons the US is still as &quot;religious&quot; (if you want to call it that) as it is and hasn&#039;t progressed as many of the Europeans countries have.  Churches have benefited from the strict deficit of other community and social outlet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t discount the fact that organized religion (which I&#8217;m taking as code for &#8220;church attendance&#8221;) fills a function that communally inept societies like America have all but abandoned.  Interaction, fellowship with other human beings, etc.  In many ways the US of A is a very screwed up place in the societal context.  Years of anti-communist propaganda has left us paranoid of any kind of community spirit; avowed capitalism eschews many group efforts that may contradict its tenets, etc.  Just about the only venue for a release from a strictly regimented existence is community church attendance and adjunct social activities.  I honestly believe this is one of the reasons the US is still as &#8220;religious&#8221; (if you want to call it that) as it is and hasn&#8217;t progressed as many of the Europeans countries have.  Churches have benefited from the strict deficit of other community and social outlet.</p>
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		<title>By: Deacon Duncan</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/09/01/whats-so-great-about-being-an-ex-christian-intellectual-integrity/comment-page-1/#comment-13034</link>
		<dc:creator>Deacon Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 04:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=1091#comment-13034</guid>
		<description>I once had a missionary friend who made a similar observation. Well, actually, what he said was that missionaries are like manure: if you spread them out, they can &quot;fertilize&quot; the fields for harvest, but if you pile them all up in one place, they stink.

I think the problem is that when you get groups of people trying to share some kind of common Christian experience, they run afoul of Christianity&#039;s inherent inconsistencies. Believer A prefers to rationalize things one way, and Believer B takes a different approach, and since Christianity has no real-world roots, there&#039;s no common ground they can use as a basis for reconciling their differences. At that point they can either shut off their brains and believe whatever they&#039;re told to believe (fundamentalists) or acknowledge that Christianity doesn&#039;t work in real-world settings because it&#039;s an inherently subjective and personal fantasy (ex-believers). Or of course they can solve things the traditional way: by creating yet another division in the &quot;body of Christ,&quot; so that each group can have the flavor of Christianity that most appeals to their personal preferences.

Organized approaches work well enough for fact-based enterprises like science, but that&#039;s because science deals with things that really exist, and that can be independently and objectively verified. Christianity is built on beliefs alone, and that&#039;s why it lacks the cohesiveness to work well in organized settings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once had a missionary friend who made a similar observation. Well, actually, what he said was that missionaries are like manure: if you spread them out, they can &#8220;fertilize&#8221; the fields for harvest, but if you pile them all up in one place, they stink.</p>
<p>I think the problem is that when you get groups of people trying to share some kind of common Christian experience, they run afoul of Christianity&#8217;s inherent inconsistencies. Believer A prefers to rationalize things one way, and Believer B takes a different approach, and since Christianity has no real-world roots, there&#8217;s no common ground they can use as a basis for reconciling their differences. At that point they can either shut off their brains and believe whatever they&#8217;re told to believe (fundamentalists) or acknowledge that Christianity doesn&#8217;t work in real-world settings because it&#8217;s an inherently subjective and personal fantasy (ex-believers). Or of course they can solve things the traditional way: by creating yet another division in the &#8220;body of Christ,&#8221; so that each group can have the flavor of Christianity that most appeals to their personal preferences.</p>
<p>Organized approaches work well enough for fact-based enterprises like science, but that&#8217;s because science deals with things that really exist, and that can be independently and objectively verified. Christianity is built on beliefs alone, and that&#8217;s why it lacks the cohesiveness to work well in organized settings.</p>
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		<title>By: cl</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/09/01/whats-so-great-about-being-an-ex-christian-intellectual-integrity/comment-page-1/#comment-13031</link>
		<dc:creator>cl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 23:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=1091#comment-13031</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this little insight into your past, DD. I always find people&#039;s deconversion stories to be &lt;i&gt;very&lt;/i&gt; enlightening, as they are perhaps the most important elements for believers who wish to understand the deconverted. There was a year or two period where I went to different churches to feel them out, but for the most part, I stay far away from organized religion, as I think it&#039;s good for one of two things: creating fundies, or creating atheists. Your testimony seems to concur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this little insight into your past, DD. I always find people&#8217;s deconversion stories to be <i>very</i> enlightening, as they are perhaps the most important elements for believers who wish to understand the deconverted. There was a year or two period where I went to different churches to feel them out, but for the most part, I stay far away from organized religion, as I think it&#8217;s good for one of two things: creating fundies, or creating atheists. Your testimony seems to concur.</p>
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		<title>By: Eneasz</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/09/01/whats-so-great-about-being-an-ex-christian-intellectual-integrity/comment-page-1/#comment-13012</link>
		<dc:creator>Eneasz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=1091#comment-13012</guid>
		<description>A wonderful article, very inspiring. Thank you for sharing. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A wonderful article, very inspiring. Thank you for sharing. <img src='http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dominic Saltarelli</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/09/01/whats-so-great-about-being-an-ex-christian-intellectual-integrity/comment-page-1/#comment-12991</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic Saltarelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=1091#comment-12991</guid>
		<description>For me, it was when a Hare Krishna sold me a Bhagavad-Gita for a dollar at college (well, handed me the book first, then asked for a &quot;donation&quot;).

It was basically that day I realized that Christianity was just another religion, and of no more merit than any other.  Replace that book with a Bible and I would have been looking into a mirror (sans the orange bedsheet, of course).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, it was when a Hare Krishna sold me a Bhagavad-Gita for a dollar at college (well, handed me the book first, then asked for a &#8220;donation&#8221;).</p>
<p>It was basically that day I realized that Christianity was just another religion, and of no more merit than any other.  Replace that book with a Bible and I would have been looking into a mirror (sans the orange bedsheet, of course).</p>
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		<title>By: John Morales</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/09/01/whats-so-great-about-being-an-ex-christian-intellectual-integrity/comment-page-1/#comment-12979</link>
		<dc:creator>John Morales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 09:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=1091#comment-12979</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But at least I can say, now that I’m an ex-Christian, I have won the greater prize...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Also, I guess this is akin to saying someone who has never known hunger/poverty/imprisonment doesn&#039;t appreciate being well-fed/financially-secure/free as much as someone who has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But at least I can say, now that I’m an ex-Christian, I have won the greater prize&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Also, I guess this is akin to saying someone who has never known hunger/poverty/imprisonment doesn&#8217;t appreciate being well-fed/financially-secure/free as much as someone who has.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunt</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2009/09/01/whats-so-great-about-being-an-ex-christian-intellectual-integrity/comment-page-1/#comment-12974</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 08:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=1091#comment-12974</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post -- and don&#039;t dismiss the healing powers of chicken soup, it&#039;s better than laying on of hands.

There is a world, in imagination, where Christianity would make sense.  It&#039;s just not the world we inhabit.  It&#039;s a Cecil B De Mill world starring Charlton Heston.  And if it were true, I doubt I would enjoy living in it.  To be honest, it sounds like a terrible existence -- to be beholden and obliged to be obedient to a creator who made you to suffer.  It just sounds like a fricking nightmare to me.  As Hitchens has said: Thank God there&#039;s no reason to believe that it&#039;s true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post &#8212; and don&#8217;t dismiss the healing powers of chicken soup, it&#8217;s better than laying on of hands.</p>
<p>There is a world, in imagination, where Christianity would make sense.  It&#8217;s just not the world we inhabit.  It&#8217;s a Cecil B De Mill world starring Charlton Heston.  And if it were true, I doubt I would enjoy living in it.  To be honest, it sounds like a terrible existence &#8212; to be beholden and obliged to be obedient to a creator who made you to suffer.  It just sounds like a fricking nightmare to me.  As Hitchens has said: Thank God there&#8217;s no reason to believe that it&#8217;s true.</p>
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