Comments on: Theistic Critiques of Atheism, part 14

By: John Morales

John Morales — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:57:13 +0000

Kel (a commenter on another blog) posted this link which seems very apposite (from Cosmos #10). Sigh. I miss Carl Sagan.

By: Tacroy

Tacroy — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:53:36 +0000

So at time t=0, time exists. Then God creates time. I see.

By: Chigliakus

Chigliakus — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:41:04 +0000

I like this explanation because it dovetails nicely with my preconceived notions about the existence of invisible pink unicorns.

By: pevo

pevo — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:34:33 +0000

facilis,

Invisible pink unicorns that exist outside of time are the better explanation. See, they existed outside of time, then at t=0 they created everything. See how much better that is? It follows logically that invisible pink unicorns created all things.

By: facilis

facilis — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:50:19 +0000

You guys misunderstand what I am saying.
First God exists timelessly
then at time t=0
- God creates the universe
-God enters into time
-Universe begins to exist

By: Ric

Ric — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:26:38 +0000

The point is the claim that things always need causes hinges on the existence of time. When time does not exist (i.e. before the universe existed), it is meaningless to say that things need causes. So when the universe came into existence, only then did things begin to need causes.

By: ThatOtherGuy

ThatOtherGuy — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:44:02 +0000

“God is timeless prior to creation and enters into time at the moment of his creation of the universe and space-time.
what’s so wrong with that?”

As Tacroy said, there can be no “moment of creation” without time already in place. There can also be no leadup to that moment, no consideration or preparation by God, if he is not subject to time.

By: Tacroy

Tacroy — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:57:07 +0000

God is timeless prior to creation and enters into time at the moment of his creation of the universe and space-time. what’s so wrong with that?

If there is no time, how can there be a moment? You contradict yourself. All you're really doing is reducing God to Bob. The beginning of the Universe? Oh, God was there too.

By: Bacopa

Bacopa — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 03:48:27 +0000

Craig lost me when he said “a being which exists by a necessity of its own nature”: What does that even mean?

By: facilis

facilis — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 02:26:23 +0000

I do understand it. God is timeless prior to creation and enters into time at the moment of his creation of the universe and space-time.
what’s so wrong with that?

By: ThatOtherGuy

ThatOtherGuy — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:15:57 +0000

No no no no no, don’t copy paste videos or just parrot Craig, explain it. If you’re going around pushing it, you need to understand it yourself.

By: facilis

facilis — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:30:59 +0000

Craig can explain it better than I.
See here-
http://www.closertotruth.com/participant/William-Lane-Craig/24

at the bottom there are 2 videos titled “Is God outside time?”
In part 1 he talks and About halfway through he explains his own view of time and God.

By: ThatOtherGuy

ThatOtherGuy — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:06:40 +0000

The second one of them can detail exactly what “outside time” or “timeless” means in a being who clearly is affected by time, I’ll throw a party.

By: John Morales

John Morales — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:33:12 +0000

Facilis, go away.

By: facilis

facilis — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:21:17 +0000

Oh and Craig does have a lot of knowledge.
His research focus was in philosophy of time and he writes a lot about theories of time in technical journals.
He also has a book called God ,time and eternity for laypeople exploring different theories of time and how they might affect what God’s relationship to time is.

By: facilis

facilis — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:15:59 +0000

“Plus, we already know that this larger material cosmos contains an uncreatable material property (time) without which it cannot chronologically precede the Big Bang.”

Cant you see you are question-begging?
Why can’t time have been created by a timeless being such as God as Craig and I maintain? If you just insist that it cannot possibly have been created because there are no timeless beings you are just question begging.

And of course Craig does not maintain that God chronologically precedes the universe. Craig understands that God is timeless without the universe so even if time never began to exist that God would still exist. One can maintain god is ontologically prior or causally prior to the universe without being chronologically prior.

By: ThatOtherGuy

ThatOtherGuy — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:41:43 +0000

“[F]acile accusations of ‘God-of-the gaps’ theology find no purchase…”

He really just does that? Just plugs his ears and says “nuh-uh” when people accuse him of something he’s obviously doing?

Between that and continuing to use long-debunked arguments, I’m really surprised this guy gets any respect at all.