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	<title>Comments on: TIA Tuesday: The Disingenuous Vox Day</title>
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	<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/12/16/tia-tuesday-the-disingenuous-vox-day/</link>
	<description>The theology of Reality</description>
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		<title>By: Common Sense Atheism &#187; The Irrational Atheist (notes in the margin, index)</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/12/16/tia-tuesday-the-disingenuous-vox-day/comment-page-1/#comment-16184</link>
		<dc:creator>Common Sense Atheism &#187; The Irrational Atheist (notes in the margin, index)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=572#comment-16184</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 26, 27, 28, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Galloway</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/12/16/tia-tuesday-the-disingenuous-vox-day/comment-page-1/#comment-6094</link>
		<dc:creator>Galloway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=572#comment-6094</guid>
		<description>DD: &quot;But we do have a reason to trust the answers: we know that they were obtained using reliable scientific technique.&quot;

Indeed. For example, we know from past experiences that pigeons cause piles of pigeon poop. When we observe piles of pigeon poop, we can reasonably infer that pigeons are in the area, even if we can&#039;t see them at a given point in time. A huge database of observation and past experiences validates these inferences. &#039;Unique&#039;, highly specialized events (like revealed &#039; truth&#039; ) do not permit reasonable inferences the same way that&#039; routine events do. 


VD: &quot; Both ethics and morals based on religion are nothing more than man-made myth to the atheist, he is therefore required to reject them on rational and materialist grounds. &quot;

Nonsense. The atheist selects the good stuff (based on natural law) and rejects the dingbat stuff that is based on ancient superstitions. If VD were correct, there would be a clear difference between the behavior of Christians and atheists, and there is not.


VD:  &quot;But even the most admirable of atheists is a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics.&quot;

First of all, VD and all other Christians for that matter, should rejoice if atheists are borrowing Christian ethics, not chide them for it. Second, as  DD pointed out, VD is attempting to commandeer for Christianity, natural law ethics, which are not exclusive to any tribe or ethnic group. Third, humanity has always progressed by building on the accomplishments of previous generations. Why should each generation have to reinvent the wheel? Using VD&#039;s logic, one might accuss VD himself of being a &#039;technological parasite&#039; for using wheels invented by pagan cavemen.

VD:  &quot;. . . intelligent men of intellectual repute such as Francis Collins and Anthony Flew should have rejected atheism at the tender ages of 27 and 81, respectively. &quot;

Great examples, Vox. Flew, at 81, was well beyond his most lucid years. Collins is an ardent supporter of full blown Darwinian evolution, and says so many times in his book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DD: &#8220;But we do have a reason to trust the answers: we know that they were obtained using reliable scientific technique.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed. For example, we know from past experiences that pigeons cause piles of pigeon poop. When we observe piles of pigeon poop, we can reasonably infer that pigeons are in the area, even if we can&#8217;t see them at a given point in time. A huge database of observation and past experiences validates these inferences. &#8216;Unique&#8217;, highly specialized events (like revealed &#8216; truth&#8217; ) do not permit reasonable inferences the same way that&#8217; routine events do. </p>
<p>VD: &#8221; Both ethics and morals based on religion are nothing more than man-made myth to the atheist, he is therefore required to reject them on rational and materialist grounds. &#8221;</p>
<p>Nonsense. The atheist selects the good stuff (based on natural law) and rejects the dingbat stuff that is based on ancient superstitions. If VD were correct, there would be a clear difference between the behavior of Christians and atheists, and there is not.</p>
<p>VD:  &#8220;But even the most admirable of atheists is a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics.&#8221;</p>
<p>First of all, VD and all other Christians for that matter, should rejoice if atheists are borrowing Christian ethics, not chide them for it. Second, as  DD pointed out, VD is attempting to commandeer for Christianity, natural law ethics, which are not exclusive to any tribe or ethnic group. Third, humanity has always progressed by building on the accomplishments of previous generations. Why should each generation have to reinvent the wheel? Using VD&#8217;s logic, one might accuss VD himself of being a &#8216;technological parasite&#8217; for using wheels invented by pagan cavemen.</p>
<p>VD:  &#8220;. . . intelligent men of intellectual repute such as Francis Collins and Anthony Flew should have rejected atheism at the tender ages of 27 and 81, respectively. &#8221;</p>
<p>Great examples, Vox. Flew, at 81, was well beyond his most lucid years. Collins is an ardent supporter of full blown Darwinian evolution, and says so many times in his book.</p>
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		<title>By: Badger3k</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/12/16/tia-tuesday-the-disingenuous-vox-day/comment-page-1/#comment-6071</link>
		<dc:creator>Badger3k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You see, Seneca was talking about the pagan Roman religion, which as everyone (aka Teddy) knows is false, that makes Seneca a double atheist, which is a double negative, so he is actually a theist.  Therefore Teddy was correct after all.  

Ouch - my brain hurts trying to think as stupid as VD.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You see, Seneca was talking about the pagan Roman religion, which as everyone (aka Teddy) knows is false, that makes Seneca a double atheist, which is a double negative, so he is actually a theist.  Therefore Teddy was correct after all.  </p>
<p>Ouch &#8211; my brain hurts trying to think as stupid as VD.</p>
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		<title>By: Ric</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/12/16/tia-tuesday-the-disingenuous-vox-day/comment-page-1/#comment-6064</link>
		<dc:creator>Ric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/?p=572#comment-6064</guid>
		<description>Great analysis.  Let me add one more thing: Vox totally misunderstands the Republic.  Nowhere in it does Plato (not Socrates, who is only a character in it) argue that there is no morality or that the only evil is ignorance.  Far from it.  It is actually knowledge of what is good and those things that are good that qualify the Philosopher-Kings for their positions.  It is NOT knowledge that there is no morality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great analysis.  Let me add one more thing: Vox totally misunderstands the Republic.  Nowhere in it does Plato (not Socrates, who is only a character in it) argue that there is no morality or that the only evil is ignorance.  Far from it.  It is actually knowledge of what is good and those things that are good that qualify the Philosopher-Kings for their positions.  It is NOT knowledge that there is no morality.</p>
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