Comments on: D’Souza’s absentee God

By: Bacopa

Bacopa — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:35:16 +0000

And please take into account that humans don’t WANT to be civilized. I suscribe to the “hydraulic trap” hypothesis. Primal State level cvilizations all arose in semi-arid river valleys. The river allowed for increased food production and social stratification, but because the surrounding land was dry, discontent people cold not leave to farm elsewhere and they’d been farming for enough generations that hunter-gatherer skills had been lost. Game over; You are now a serf.

Other state level societies arose out of pressure from agression from state level societies. The Zulus are perhaps the best example in recent times.

Archeological evidence shows that until the industrial revolution, the average hunter-gatherer or pastoralist was bigger and healthier than the average city swller who succeeded him. For most of history civilization has sucked for most people.

By: Nemo

Nemo — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:47:21 +0000

He undercuts his own argument. If 98% of humanity came after Jesus (and this appears to be roughly correct), and we assume that the average amount of progress achieved by each person remains constant, then it only makes sense that 98% of our progress has occurred after Jesus.

By: B8ovin

B8ovin — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 07:43:02 +0000

Ses- D’Souza includes the Egyptians within his time frame of civilization.

Chris- You are right, your basic knowledge is better than D’Souza’s, which makes any artistic effort even more impressive as it happens. Even with the effort of bare survival the cave and rock painters were driven to expression. This investment of time seems all the more impressive in that light, and makes the paintings even more of a creation not something less than “real art”.

By: jim

jim — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:31:13 +0000

Seriously, and this guy considers himself a SCHOLAR! And it took him, what, 9 months to dream this one up?

“But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”

Luke 18:16

By: Chris

Chris — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:41:17 +0000

I have at most minimal knowledge of ancient history and anthropology, but weren’t human societies basically just hunter-gather societies until about 10,000 years ago? Wasn’t it the agricultural revolution that started modern human civilization? Is D’Souza really that ignorant?

By: SES

SES — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:34:33 +0000

I’m surprised that nobody has pointed out that the pyramids were built more than 2000 years ago. There are many other examples of (relatively) advanced cultures that pre-date Christ.

D’Souza’s argument falls in the face of history.

By: B8ovin

B8ovin — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:18:01 +0000

D’Souza was brilliant in his strategy of not putting this argument before Hitch. He would have been much better off if he had kept this his “secret” answer.
Apart from your wonderful logical destruction, a factual examination erodes the premise. Firstly, D’Souza never defines “real art”, nor does he demonstrate that pre-civilization man did not create it. He also seems to think that because there is no written account of philosophical thought and historical culture it didn’t exist. Primitive rock paintings prove this false. Not only are these abstract depictions of events, they are preserved through an effort. Why? The artists must have had a conception of something beyond themselves to leave a representation of their lives, whether for later generations or for spiritual reasons, the fact that they exist shows thinking beyond what D’Souza claims didn’t exist.
Further, he neglects the idea that, like modern social groups that maintain primitive lives, early man may well have relied on story telling to pass theological origin myths without aid of written language. There are more than a few examples of bone, shell, wood and feather art in the form of body decoration. What does this show D’Souza? He seems to think that when man reached the point when he could create temples God created in man the ability to understand why temples should be built. The evidence might also be interpreted that when man had the ability to build temples man created something to put in them.

By: valdemar

valdemar — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:34:03 +0000

This is reminiscent of Alfred Russel Wallace’s tortuous and ultimately laughable attempts to reconcile Spiritualism, to which he was a convert, with natural selection, which he co-discovered. Wallace tarnished his reputation as a scientist. Of course, D’Souza has nothing to lose in that regard…

By: David D.G.

David D.G. — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:33:21 +0000

I still cannot understand why anyone takes that man seriously. It mystifies me now more than ever, in fact.

Nice smackdown, and well deserved!

~David D.G.