Comments on: TIA Tuesday: Vox versus Jesus

By: Common Sense Atheism » The Irrational Atheist (notes in the margin, index)

Common Sense Atheism » The Irrational Atheist (notes in the margin, index) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:32:10 +0000

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By: Ric

Ric — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:21:51 +0000

Vox’s obvious strategy is to wrack his brain for any way that Dawkins could theoretically be wrong, no matter how inapplicable that way is from what Dawkins is actually saying, and use that as his refutation. But of course it is easy to refute an argument your opponent hasn’t made.

By: B8ovin

B8ovin — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:09:52 +0000

Sooner or later it must be conceded that a level of complexity can exist on its own. For Christians that level is God. But they never seem to have a good answer for why God is capable of its own genesis and the universe is not. Vox doesn’t seem to be any where near a reasonable explanation for all his pretzel logic and moving goal posts.

By: jim

jim — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:37:17 +0000

I don’t think Vox actually UNDERSTANDS orthodox Christian faith. His approach is piecemeal; a sentence here, half a concept there, without a mind to how it all comes together. It’s funny- he seems to be a fairly smart guy (at least, that’s what he keeps telling us), and yet, his arguments are some of the worst I’ve seen. Well, maybe not the WORST, but definitely the most convoluted. This is what happens when smart people pursue really dumb initial premises, I guess. He just keeps digging himself deeper into the ground.

You know, this whole argument finally just boils down to the question most kids ask: If God made the world, then who made God? Ostensibly dismissed for its ‘naivete’, this query has been a stumblingblock for generations of apologists, as well as the catalyst for the sort of self-demolishing argumentation you’ve addressed here.

One more thing: Even IF we granted that God is less complex than His creation, where does that leave us? I mean, that still leaves us with SOME degree of complexity to account for, doesn’t it? Must we then invoke a succession of dumber creator gods, stretching backwards into an infinite regress until we’re finally left with…nothing? So, great complexity requires nothing?

Works for me!

By: VorJack

VorJack — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:40:35 +0000

Now I’m confused. Is Vox arguing from a God independent from Christianity? If he could produce evidence for a demiurge or for the god pf philosophers, this would disprove large chunks of Christian doctrine. For example, it is hard to see how a demiurge or the god of Aristotle would have manifested as Jesus. Would Vox still be satisfied?

In the Philosophy of Religion, God is usually defined as omnipotent, omniscient and omni-benevolent (all powerful, all knowing and all good/morally perfect.) Anything less than that is not God. Therefore, it seems that Vox has given up on God and is now simply arguing for something really big and powerful.