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	<title>Comments on: TIA Tuesday: More &#8220;fun&#8221; with statistics.</title>
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	<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/04/08/tia-tuesday-more-fun-with-statistics/</link>
	<description>The theology of Reality</description>
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		<title>By: Common Sense Atheism &#187; The Irrational Atheist (notes in the margin, index)</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/04/08/tia-tuesday-more-fun-with-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-16288</link>
		<dc:creator>Common Sense Atheism &#187; The Irrational Atheist (notes in the margin, index)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realevang.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-16288</guid>
		<description>[...] Atheist, in a whopping 56 parts: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Atheist, in a whopping 56 parts: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; TIA Tuesday: Dawkins on morality, theocracy, and psychological abuse. Evangelical Realism</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/04/08/tia-tuesday-more-fun-with-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-511</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; TIA Tuesday: Dawkins on morality, theocracy, and psychological abuse. Evangelical Realism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realevang.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-511</guid>
		<description>[...] looked at Vox&#8217;s statistics before, and it&#8217;s no surprise that he brings up the same spurious interpretations he&#8217;s been [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] looked at Vox&#8217;s statistics before, and it&#8217;s no surprise that he brings up the same spurious interpretations he&#8217;s been [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Deacon Duncan</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/04/08/tia-tuesday-more-fun-with-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-453</link>
		<dc:creator>Deacon Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realevang.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-453</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve had a request from an anonymous reader to post the following comments, so here they are:



&lt;blockquote&gt;A couple of points.



Vox claims that being an agnostic is perfectly reasonable (p. 23) but

he&#039;s a little less charitable towards atheists (p. 17):

Agnostic: I don’t believe there is a God. Because I haven’t seen the

evidence.

Atheist: There is no God. Because I’m an asshole.

The author identifies himself as a Christian, so presumably

Christianity is another reasonable position on this issue.



So, let&#039;s recap. When presented with a question (&quot;Does God exist?&quot;)

that cannot be answered with absolute certainty, it is unreasonable to

assert that &quot;no&quot; is more likely the correct answer. But it is,

however, perfectly reasonable to answer the unanswerable question with

a firm &quot;yes&quot;, and in fact to go further by selecting the particular

religion that must be the correct form of the &quot;yes&quot; answer. Glad

we&#039;ve cleared that up.



The inconsistency goes a little deeper. The author points out that

Dawkins rates himself as a 6 out of 7 on a hypothetical atheism

scale. But rather than concede that by his own logic that this is a

reasonable position to take, on pages 11 and 12 he basically mocks

Dawkins for being insufficiently committed to atheism.





And the second point. On page 38 the author refers to &quot;the New

Atheists&#039; stated desire to destroy religion&quot;. Wow. It&#039;s one thing to

be unhappy about religion, but to go so far as to state a desire to

destroy religion?! Why the nerve of those atheists!



Ah, but of course the author doesn&#039;t provide a quote, a footnote, or a

citation where we can confirm for ourselves this &quot;stated desire&quot; from

any of the New Atheists. For a guy who has written a 305 page book

with countless footnotes attempting to eviscerate the New Atheists,

surely he can bother to identify precisely where each of the New

Atheists has actually stated this &quot;stated desire?&quot; Surely on such a

basic point as this he can&#039;t be simply fabricating a caricature, can

he? Oh, of course we all know he can and does.



I&#039;ve had enough. Reading this book doesn&#039;t merit any more of my time.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had a request from an anonymous reader to post the following comments, so here they are:</p>
<blockquote><p>A couple of points.</p>
<p>Vox claims that being an agnostic is perfectly reasonable (p. 23) but</p>
<p>he&#8217;s a little less charitable towards atheists (p. 17):</p>
<p>Agnostic: I don’t believe there is a God. Because I haven’t seen the</p>
<p>evidence.</p>
<p>Atheist: There is no God. Because I’m an asshole.</p>
<p>The author identifies himself as a Christian, so presumably</p>
<p>Christianity is another reasonable position on this issue.</p>
<p>So, let&#8217;s recap. When presented with a question (&#8220;Does God exist?&#8221;)</p>
<p>that cannot be answered with absolute certainty, it is unreasonable to</p>
<p>assert that &#8220;no&#8221; is more likely the correct answer. But it is,</p>
<p>however, perfectly reasonable to answer the unanswerable question with</p>
<p>a firm &#8220;yes&#8221;, and in fact to go further by selecting the particular</p>
<p>religion that must be the correct form of the &#8220;yes&#8221; answer. Glad</p>
<p>we&#8217;ve cleared that up.</p>
<p>The inconsistency goes a little deeper. The author points out that</p>
<p>Dawkins rates himself as a 6 out of 7 on a hypothetical atheism</p>
<p>scale. But rather than concede that by his own logic that this is a</p>
<p>reasonable position to take, on pages 11 and 12 he basically mocks</p>
<p>Dawkins for being insufficiently committed to atheism.</p>
<p>And the second point. On page 38 the author refers to &#8220;the New</p>
<p>Atheists&#8217; stated desire to destroy religion&#8221;. Wow. It&#8217;s one thing to</p>
<p>be unhappy about religion, but to go so far as to state a desire to</p>
<p>destroy religion?! Why the nerve of those atheists!</p>
<p>Ah, but of course the author doesn&#8217;t provide a quote, a footnote, or a</p>
<p>citation where we can confirm for ourselves this &#8220;stated desire&#8221; from</p>
<p>any of the New Atheists. For a guy who has written a 305 page book</p>
<p>with countless footnotes attempting to eviscerate the New Atheists,</p>
<p>surely he can bother to identify precisely where each of the New</p>
<p>Atheists has actually stated this &#8220;stated desire?&#8221; Surely on such a</p>
<p>basic point as this he can&#8217;t be simply fabricating a caricature, can</p>
<p>he? Oh, of course we all know he can and does.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had enough. Reading this book doesn&#8217;t merit any more of my time.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Deacon Duncan</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/04/08/tia-tuesday-more-fun-with-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>Deacon Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realevang.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-452</guid>
		<description>Vox (and some of his friends) have &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2008/04/john_scalzi_should_be_ashamed.php#c829102&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;commented&lt;/a&gt; about the above post, and even some of those who liked it are saying that I missed Vox&#039;s point. Amazingly, nobody seems to have noticed that I pointed out repeatedly that Vox did indeed begin by calling Harris&#039; metric &quot;bogus.&quot; Oh well. I also said Vox was right about the flaws in the Red State argument, but he calls me &quot;dimwitted&quot; anyway. This guy cracks me up! I know he doesn&#039;t intend these little &lt;i&gt;double entendres&lt;/i&gt;, but they still strike me funny.



In any case, my point in the above post was to document the shift in language. Maybe he does acknowledge that RS/BS is a bogus argument if you press him on the point, but he definitely set up a good quote that seems to say Christianity benefits society. Yes, elsewhere he calls it a stupid and useless metric, but those disclaimers are conspicuously absent from the paragraph that talks about &quot;proving&quot; that red states have less crime. I&#039;m still waiting to see Vox say something that explicitly identifies the pro-Christian conclusion with the disclaimer that it&#039;s a bogus result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vox (and some of his friends) have <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2008/04/john_scalzi_should_be_ashamed.php#c829102" rel="nofollow">commented</a> about the above post, and even some of those who liked it are saying that I missed Vox&#8217;s point. Amazingly, nobody seems to have noticed that I pointed out repeatedly that Vox did indeed begin by calling Harris&#8217; metric &#8220;bogus.&#8221; Oh well. I also said Vox was right about the flaws in the Red State argument, but he calls me &#8220;dimwitted&#8221; anyway. This guy cracks me up! I know he doesn&#8217;t intend these little <i>double entendres</i>, but they still strike me funny.</p>
<p>In any case, my point in the above post was to document the shift in language. Maybe he does acknowledge that RS/BS is a bogus argument if you press him on the point, but he definitely set up a good quote that seems to say Christianity benefits society. Yes, elsewhere he calls it a stupid and useless metric, but those disclaimers are conspicuously absent from the paragraph that talks about &#8220;proving&#8221; that red states have less crime. I&#8217;m still waiting to see Vox say something that explicitly identifies the pro-Christian conclusion with the disclaimer that it&#8217;s a bogus result.</p>
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		<title>By: Deacon Duncan</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/04/08/tia-tuesday-more-fun-with-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>Deacon Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realevang.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-451</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s the defense I&#039;d raise if I were Vox, but we&#039;ll see. I think that was certainly his original intention, but by the end of his argument he&#039;s using pretty triumphal language to describe the conclusion that Christianity promotes social health. Can he resist the temptation to use this as an argument supporting religion? And more importantly, will his conservative readers recognize the argument as bogus, or will they thank Vox for &quot;proving&quot; the value of Christianity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s the defense I&#8217;d raise if I were Vox, but we&#8217;ll see. I think that was certainly his original intention, but by the end of his argument he&#8217;s using pretty triumphal language to describe the conclusion that Christianity promotes social health. Can he resist the temptation to use this as an argument supporting religion? And more importantly, will his conservative readers recognize the argument as bogus, or will they thank Vox for &#8220;proving&#8221; the value of Christianity?</p>
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		<title>By: jorgaba</title>
		<link>http://blog.evangelicalrealism.com/2008/04/08/tia-tuesday-more-fun-with-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>jorgaba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realevang.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-450</guid>
		<description>hmm...I think Vox may be on OK ground here.  To me, he seems only to be saying that Harris&#039; conclusions are backward given the measure he uses.    I don&#039;t see where Vox is actually saying the red/blue state measure is valid...only that, even if it were valid, Harris should have drawn the opposite conclusion.



So now we&#039;ll look for Vox to clearly state in his forthcoming review that, yes indeed, the red/blue state measure is invalid regardless of the conclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmm&#8230;I think Vox may be on OK ground here.  To me, he seems only to be saying that Harris&#8217; conclusions are backward given the measure he uses.    I don&#8217;t see where Vox is actually saying the red/blue state measure is valid&#8230;only that, even if it were valid, Harris should have drawn the opposite conclusion.</p>
<p>So now we&#8217;ll look for Vox to clearly state in his forthcoming review that, yes indeed, the red/blue state measure is invalid regardless of the conclusion.</p>
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